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Author Topic: Grille Badge  (Read 9238 times)

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Offline Des

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Grille Badge
« on: May 30, 2008, 04:09:58 AM »
Not sure if this has been talked about in the past.

Has it ever been looked into to have a 170 220 group grille badge, based on the website logo?


Offline Jim Axman

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2008, 07:50:04 AM »
Shortly following our startup in April 2005, John Ellis came up with the logo design.  We were looking for something that was unique (that had commonality as to features) and I think John came up with the idea that the grill and headlights were a unique feature to these cars, representing both the pre-war and post war era.  As you know, the 220 just has the headlights embedded into the fenders, a style that MB went to around 1953 with the introduction of the 300 series and 180 ponton....

The problem with the current logo, as John and I have discussed, is that because of the detail in the grill, making a badge would present challenges.   In the 300 group that I started in 1999, we made our first badge shortly thereafter using the entire 300 car.  I had the badge made with the same vendor that jeff Miller used for the ponton group badge (and coicidentally, a vendor just 1 mile from my house in Colorado).  I have been over to his house and spoken with him on a number of occassions....he is the same vendor that did our second 300 badge around 2004.  We also had pins and patches made as well.
We then decided it might be cool to sequentially number the badges on the back (i.e.   5 of 250) making them more rare (I had my badge gold plated to make it even more unqiue).   

I've introduced the badge and logo concept a number of times....but alas, we can't seem to come up with a preferred logo that would represent all cars we focus on.  Our decisions have to be made based on a collective group....obviously the less people involved, the easier to reach a decision, but that decision must then be pallatable to others, otherwise you are shooting yourself in the foot and those unhappy with the design will not buy the badge....thus the price increases, etc.....

I also have an interest in finding a surname for these models (i.e  fintails, pontons, adenauers....all seem to have embodied a surname characteristic of the cars)....
I realize there is "oldtimers" and and "oldies"  as possible scenarios for a surname, but those examples are specific enough and encompass a myriad of models. 

We certainly would entertain any suggestions for a logo.....and I would love to use it on the site, t-shirts, badges, etc....
It's not that we are difficult or too selective....there just hasn't been that many offerings of examples to use.
If we use a 170, then what about the 220s, and the 230's, etc....    Badges typically made for a group of 150 people will run around $28.50 each.   there aren't enough members to have specific divisions (170, 200, cabs, etc......... in making a badge, the larger the order, the lower the cost.....so you can't have 6 people wanting a 220 badge, the price would be high....and what about the cab owners....they might the cab as the representative car vs the sedan.... and it goes on and on.....in a full circle with no resolve.

This is why new member/subscribers always bring new ideas and suggestions to the forum....and keep lively....
Maybe we should just bite the bullet and use the prewar sedan complete as a representation of our group....since the prewar sedan started it all...it might have meaning.    Lot easier to use a complete car than just some aspect....it won't have great detail....be will be recognizable apart from other MB models of later years.   Any suggestions?   
I'll sticky this so it remains at the top and maybe we'll get this resolved once and for all? :)

 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 08:01:23 AM by curator »

Offline Jim Axman

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2008, 08:26:32 AM »
Here is the first badge we did in the 300 group
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 08:30:27 AM by curator »

Offline Jim Axman

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2008, 08:35:56 AM »
then, Albrecht Stachel (who owns Brooklyn Motoren) (as the story goes) was sitting in his car one day and looked down upon the steering wheel, and decided that the steering wheel cap might make a great badge idea.....
Greg merrick picked up on the idea and did some photo shop work in various colors....
and eventually one of them was made into a badge.   i recall the experience vividly because I volunteered to handle all the transactions, making of the badge, orders, shipping them all over the world (and this was the month before xmas)....quite an undertaking but doable.   

The different colors concept for badges is interesting, but again, you can't make just a few in a certain color, unless you are willing to pay a much higher price.  these color renderings were done in a photoshop, but ultimately it is sent to the badge vendor, who has an illustration artist, who for $65 bucks will transfer your idea into a badge format.   then it is shipped for the badge protype casting


Offline Des

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2008, 08:37:13 AM »
Dear Jim

Thank you for your response, and your comments do make perfect sense in regards to the difficulties in producing a badge that "everyone" would be happy with.
I have been racking my brains trying to think of something that is shared across the entire range of cars from this period, and apart from MB's copyrighted three pointed star I cannot come up with anything.

While I am not a savvy person with computer graphics software, give me a week and I'll see what I can come up with, or at least some ideas on what we can maybe work with.


Kind Regards
Des


Offline Jim Axman

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2008, 08:51:16 AM »
the other subject that I have not mentioned in these postings, is the preliminary caution that we cannot use anything MB specific (that resembles MB's badges).  I actually have a copy of a memo written by an attorney for mercedes that cautions against infringement of their badges.   The only accepted concept that can be used are.... the Laurels on the side of most MB badges....as I reminded the attorney, the "Laurels" go back to Roman days; MB may have patented the star, but the Romans beat them to the "laurels"  :)

Offline roadster36

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2008, 09:54:54 AM »
This is the new logo we make recently for

http://www.mbchassisclub.nl/

Click on foto`s and you see picture`s of the tour towards Ladenburg we make
Jan
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 09:59:52 AM by roadster36 »

Offline strelnik

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Re: Group Logo Items; new item possible?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2008, 11:35:54 AM »
Would anyone be interested in making a grille badge for the club? The diesel group has one called the Mercedes OBK  for

Oel brenner Kartel  / Oil burners cartel

They are metal and porcelaoine, quite nice looking and only sell 50 at a time for about 25-30 bucks a piece.
Any interest?

The ponton guys have one too
Das Beste oder nichts!

Offline CraigS

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Offline Jim Axman

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2008, 05:27:44 PM »
Darryl, I merge your post with this one....as the subject had already started.

Offline John Ellis

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2008, 08:45:44 PM »
I decided to try and come up with alternative design for the logo that would translate well to a grille badge. 
Here is a rough sketch.  Let me know your comments - good or bad.

I did have a mock-up grille badge made with our current logo, but was not satisfied with the result due to the detail not working with the cloisonne process.

John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline CraigS

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2008, 01:08:19 AM »
I like the simplicity of the design. Classy and understated.

Offline MikeW

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2008, 06:19:51 PM »
John I like the badge, and thank you for the work you have done, lets decide and have them made I will take 4 Badges 6 Golf shirts and any other thing we produce.

Offline Jim Axman

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2008, 08:15:57 PM »
perfect....you took the detail out of the grill, added an interesting background and retained the uniqueness of our models....  what colors would you recommend?

Offline Scott Montoney

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2008, 02:13:46 PM »
John,
Thanks for your effort, and obvious talent, on this project.
Looking forward to the end product.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline John Ellis

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2008, 10:16:22 PM »
Thank you for your input.  I will continue refining the the logo based upon the sketch and post several different color schemes on which we can try polling the group for a final selection.
John Ellis
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1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline strelnik

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Re: Grille Badge for 170-220 group
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2008, 07:42:40 AM »
Folks,
We are a slight disadvantage in that the cars from other clubs were all nicknamed by someone before the club was founded. MB nicknamed the Pontons and oil burners, the Chancellor of Germany nicknamed the Adenauer aka Adi (usually only in Germany), and auto writers in Europe nicknamed the Heckflossen, which we translate as "fintail", based on our heritage starting in 57. 

No one nicknamed the 170 series except one German auto historian who vacillates between "136" and "hundertsiebzigers" . And that doesn't include the 220 series, which some Brits have called the "first roundies" which is also their nickname for the pontons as a group.

I will continue to dig and perhaps we can find a name or a symbol using the chassis numbers such as W136.  But since we also look at prewar cars, maybe we should call ourselves "the Mercedes 00-55 club", since we seem to have an interest in many of the cars produced before pontons.

I any event, I will keep looking and report what I find here; the more info, the better balanced and more satisfactory our decision (I hope).
Darryl
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Offline CraigS

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2008, 01:01:13 AM »
Anything pre Ponton era is referrred to as a "chassis car" in Australia, but of course, that includes the Adi (and many others).

Offline strelnik

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 04:18:13 AM »
Folks,
Recently I had a lot of time to think (driving from Detroit to Chicago and return) and while doing so, I thought about our name. How about this:

The Mercedes EPW Group:  It could stand for "Early Post War" or "Early and Post War"

In this way we define the group and don't exclude anyone.

I personally have nothing against the idea of 170+220, but we don't seem to stick to that group and this seems to be a source of dissatisfaction.

I'm trying to find a name that is inclusive and could make a simple but snazzy badge. It lends itself to a badge representation with as much flexibility as the group wants to give it, and does not limit us to finding things which are unique to the 170-220 group (such as the grille) unlesss we choose to limit ourselves.

Just an idea floated out there. Interested in your feedback.

Darryl

Thanks
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Offline John Ellis

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Re: Grille Badge
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2008, 11:03:51 PM »
Here is a excerpt from our homepage:

Quote
We began this site in March 2005 to  promote a  discussion,  increase awareness, deepen understanding,  share common resources, foster an appreciation, and celebrate an enjoyment of a unique series of models with many variants, spanning a 20 year production  period from 1935 to 1955.  There are approx 34 variants of the 170-220 type models.  Join us in the Forum to discuss the unique features of these fine  classic automobiles.

We are 170/220, and while we have an appreciation for many of the early Mercedes Benz models, our focus is for these models.  There are already forums and groups established for the 300 series, pontons, and various other early MB models, but 170/220 is our focus.

Certainly we do not limit, nor exclude those who have an interest for other "early" models; in fact, we encourage discussions in the  general discussion forum. Our sightings section is very inclusive of other related pre-war models.

These of course are my personal thoughts and I am not speaking for the group.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:25:22 AM by John Ellis »
John Ellis
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2007 Porsche Cayman