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Author Topic: New guy :) 1949 170V  (Read 37850 times)

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Offline Ted

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2012, 04:07:34 PM »
Yes, my chassis has it too, it is for the pipe.

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2012, 03:45:52 AM »
What a nice job man!

Where did you get all the shiny bolts? Where did you learn how to fix the oil system and brakes?

Hey there Stoebel,

well i sent all the bolts and some other metal parts to Zinc coating , of-course they all completing a process that involve rust cleaning (in acid) and some other stuff and after it the all come back clean and shiny like the day the left the factory, and have the rust resistance.
(some bolts, depending on they'r damage ofer the years, are replaced by new ones)

(Picture by Google, i didn't coated the pipes )

concerning the oil and brakes systems, i bought all the devices and pipes (here at a local shop and on eBay), watched some YouTube videos and started  :) together with the original manual it wasn't so hard ,was very fun and did save a lot of money.

Offline John Ellis

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2012, 03:45:48 PM »
I would say "more than shiny" leaving the plant.  Most of these parts were originally black oxide, black paint, or bare castings.
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2013, 03:34:35 AM »
Step by step we get closer to complete the engine, after complete disassemble, overhauling ,figuring-out that the engine is probably a  922 (170Va) engine with 75mm pistons and a fresh coat of paint i started to closing it back.

oil filter had been cleaned and polished, the core plugs were replaced ,a new water pump had taken it's place and the manifolds were attached together and with new ellen head studs were mounted to the cylinder block.

let's give the pics to talk for themselves!





NOW, up for the next challenge, the Distributor , until now i had in the car Bosch distributor model VJ6AR4T , which i took to my distributor specialist and after a few days he  told me that i have a problem within my distributor , the shaft inside is broken and needed to be replaced, but, he cant find anything that will match for it.

so i'm in a slight dillema ,
a- is it the right distributor ? I saw in the PDF here in the forum that the proper one is " VE 4 CR 388 " is this true?
b- i'm looking for someone here that can help me and willing to sell / trade a distributor  ,even for scrap that i can use the shaft to save mine.

Thanks guys  :)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 03:41:07 AM by ereyal »

Offline mersumies

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2013, 01:01:15 PM »
Hi,
Postwar engines have a VE 4 CR 388 distributor and it would be  vice to contact www.iw-classic.com, again,  it may be hard to get spare parts but they can arrange an overhauled distributor for a reasonable price to you. I just got a "brandnew" distributor and some other parts. I really recommend

Greetings from snowing Finland

Offline John Ellis

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2013, 07:10:31 PM »
The Bosch VJ 6 AR 4T distributor is for a 6 cylinder engine ... so it is good thing that you weren't able to repair it.  The pre-war engine utilized a Bosch VE 4 BS 283 distributor and post war as you found and Mursumies confirmed,  is a Bosch VE 4 CR 388 or VE 4 CS 283 for some of the early postwar 170V and 170Va models.  The change to the VE 4 CR 388 was made sometime during the 170Va production run.

It is going to be very difficult to find the correct distributor, but it would probably be easier in europe. The early VW bugs uses a Bosch VE4-BRS-383 distributor which is very similar to the ones above except for the long external shaft that links to the oil pump driven off of the camshaft for the 170V.  This would be far easier to find and the internals have the same mechanical advance, points, rotor, and cap.

I have the VW distributor and will check to see if it will fit the 170V.  If so, you can have it. Hopefully you can find the correct distributor.  Can you confirm the diameter of the distributor hole in the engine valve head for your engine?  It should be roughly 22mm.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 12:59:38 PM by John Ellis »
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2013, 06:55:02 AM »
The Bosch VJ 6 AR 4T distributor is for a 6 cylinder engine ... so it is good thing that you weren't able to repair it.  The pre-war engine utilized a Bosch VE 4 BS 283 distributor and post war as you found and Mursumies confirmed,  is a Bosch VE 4 CR 388 or VE 4 CS 283 for some of the early postwar 170V models.

It is going to be very difficult to find the correct distributor, but it would probably be easier in europe. The early VW bugs uses a Bosch VE4-BRS-383 distributor which is very similar to the ones above except for the long external shaft that links to the oil pump driven off of the camshaft for the 170V.  This would be far easier to find and the internals have the same mechanical advance, points, rotor, and cap.

I have the VW distributor and will check to see if it will fit the 170V.  If so, you can have it. Hopefully you can find the correct distributor.  Can you confirm the diameter of the distributor hole in the engine valve head for your engine?  It should be roughly 22mm.



Hello John ,

You are right of-course and the diameter is 22mm sharp.

Another strange thing in my distributor, although the "6" figure means that it is for a 6 cyl engine, the shaft only have 4 "humps" that indicate it for a 4 cyl engine.


Offline John Ellis

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2013, 02:41:00 PM »
It must have been modified at some point.  Only thing I can think of is that your original distributor housing was damaged and the internal parts were placed in the current housing.  Most of the early cast iron distributors shared the same housings with different internal components.

Attached is a picture of the internals of the VE4 CR 388.  Which shaft is broken?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 02:44:38 PM by John Ellis »
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2013, 04:09:58 PM »
Hi John,
i think it is no.15 , the specialist mentioned that the plate that attached to the shaft cut loos from the welding.
he did try to weld it but something else he find was broken there.


Offline John Ellis

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2013, 06:53:36 PM »
Ereyal,

Give me a couple of days and I will get you all the distributor models that share the same shaft as the Bosch VE 4 CR 388.  Hopefully, it will be easier to find one of the others and use for parts.
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline John Ellis

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2013, 01:25:34 PM »
Ereyal, it looks as though the shaft assembly was only used on the VE 4 CR 388 distributor.  Looks to be specific to the diameter and end configuration to fit the 170V.  Your best and only option is finding a used VE 4 CR 388 or more appropriately a VE 4 CS 283 distributor, since yours is a 1949 170V.
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2013, 02:28:01 PM »
Small update,
sadly my distributor is officially good for scrap only so the search for another is on.

i remounted the engine ,polished the timing cover so it's all nice and shiny  :)

starting to do the carburetor now (and there is a lot to do...)

« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 02:33:42 PM by ereyal »

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2013, 11:12:21 AM »

Offline John Ellis

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2013, 11:53:41 AM »
Congratulations!  Not only sounds good but looks great.
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2013, 12:21:05 PM »
I noticed you are using the cast iron head on the Va engine. The shop manual makes a point of the change in valve lift in the later engines, and lack of clearance in the early heads. I was just looking at this problem on the engine I just did  (1949 V engine but with later cam), the aluminum head was a little thinner than I liked.  It appeared from some crude measurements that there was plenty of clearance for the valves. Obviously you aren't having any problems, so I was wondering your thought are on this.

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2013, 02:04:05 PM »
Hi Henry,
Well the engine saga was full of question marks , you can read about some of them on this post.
after a couple of months i think i came to the bottom of this, someone long time ago replaced the engine with a later Va one that was casted on Jan 1951, and to avoid any RSA (Registration Office)  issues he 'kept' the original engine serial number.....
so the iron head remains .
i too noticed the valves clearance difference and of-course took that in conclusion .


P.S
In the film it's my father's friend gives us a hand
 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 02:06:29 PM by ereyal »

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2013, 09:54:43 AM »
Small progress ,
i took the radiator to the shop where they tested it and it came out OK , some welds on the sides and a fresh coat of paint and it looks like new.
i managed to  make a converter from the old metric thread for the down radiator pipe to a standard 1 " NPT and fixed there a new one.
the NOS thermostat is in place and looks like we good to go.
BUT, after a installed the dynamo a noticed the big gap between the pulley and the engine\water pump pulley, something lie half an inch.
Someone in the past replaced the original ventilated pulley with some other , so no my fellow 170'ers in looking for an old pulley so i can install in me dynamo, please contact my if you have one to sell \ replace with some other 170 parts:



Here are some photos from yesterday :


« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 10:01:47 AM by ereyal »

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2013, 02:24:33 PM »
As you probably know, the thermostat is for a ponton, so you will have to close the by-pass pipe.

Offline John Ellis

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2013, 08:08:14 PM »
Just ran across this recently.  The 170V thermostats are now available at Automobilia Verand.

http://www.automobilia-versand.de/Thyssen-p1376h18s27-Kuehlwasserregler-Th.html
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline ereyal

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Re: New guy :) 1949 170V
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2013, 07:38:20 AM »
As you probably know, the thermostat is for a ponton, so you will have to close the by-pass pipe.

Hi Henry ,
Yes i do know ,the pipe is closed for now and in the near future i will use it as a mount for the heat sensor.

it is an original NOS thermostat that i was lucky enough to get for 15 bucks , a bit better that 72 euros .....

p.s

John , thanks for the link, i did saw it and maybe in the future will replace it..... we'll see how it goes.

The search for the pulley is still on guys ,much appreciate you help  ;D

Eyal