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11
Postwar 170S / Re: 170S, Sb model description
« Last post by braveman170 on December 05, 2019, 01:24:45 AM »
Hi

I have tried to answer some questions


Engine
- timing chain /Sb

gear boxe
-different synchronization / Sb = better ( mean different gear boxe housing or only internal componments ? )
Different syncronization, different main shaft, different end of the main shaft (straight end).

-speed shifting on the column / Sb  ( mean also a different weeling column and the different carpet ?  )
The rubber carpets have a different size.
The middle chassi cover over the gearbox has a different size and no hole for the stick shift

Transmission
- hypoid rear axle /Sb  mean different ratio , different alignment , different housing ( sealed not on middle )   
Totally different rear axle, not sealed on the middle

Body
- different rear track + 15 mm  =  1 435 mm / Sb  ( mean different subframe ?  )
The subframe has bigger dimension like the W187

- Different body between S and Sb ( witch is similar than 220)  because of the rear window more large on Sb
- Wood Rubber on rear window disappear on the same time = march 1952  / Sb and new caoutchouc ruber most large appear
- On the same time exterior chrome ring appear on the rear window  /Sb
- Rear trunk hinges inside the trunk and not visible / Sb

Interior
- Starting button on the dashboard  / Sb

Sb has a ventilator fan and a button at the dashboard to start it
Sb has another type of inside rear mirror
Sb 1953 has other sun visors
Please could you give me more informations about these points you'd written :

Another firewall  =  due to the speed shifting or ?
Complete different due to the speed shifting and the heating system and defroster air inlets
No lid over the battery

heatingsystem = what is different between Sb and S ?  did the heating system is optionnal like the 170S or not ?   
Complete different, and possible to adjust the heat from the dashboard. Standard equipment for Sb

dashboard = due to the engine starting button ?   
Sb has air inlets defroster at the right and left side
Sb has indicator lamps for Choke and blinker at the dashboard.
The steering wheel is different due to the column shift, the backside connection to the column
Sb has the same steering wheel as the 220
Sb has no blinker indicator at the center of the steering wheel

thicker frame =  where is différent ? and what is the value
Dimensions like the 220, the same material but wider and higher tubes.

headliner = whitch differences ?  on matérial ? 
The headliner is covering the whole inside roof like the Ponton, No sidepanels over the doors like 170S
 
door locks = whitch differences  ?
door handles = whitch differences ?
Three different types of locks/handles I now exists, 170S, 17Sb(Boromo) and 220/170S-V/170D-S

cardan shaft = whitch differences  ?
Different connections to both gearbox and rear axle

More that points , could you please also confirm me some others points of view  :

- Somebody explain that the chrome button on the dash board is different between S and Sb model
The buttons are the same type but Sb has one more for the ventilator fan.

- The exteriors foot plates( under front and rear back wings)   are different between S and Sb models

?
Sb has a different type of front fender and different plates beside and under the engine


 
Another Gentleman  ( John ELLIS)  noted some others differences

- The fuel mixture throtle control  was eliminated  on S model until 1951 , not present on Sb model ?     
Don’t know

- On 170 S model 1949 - optional heater made standard mean that is the same for 170 Sb ?

Standard for Sb left/right I mean
The heaters, tubes and inlets at the firewall are totally different

- On 170 S model 1950 - external hinged spare wheel mount available as factory option , mean that for the 170Sb its not possible to install an spare wheel mounting system ?
You can install it both for 170S and Sb, no problem
 
 
An to make it even more interesting there are differences between Sb 1952 and Sb 1953.
I have a Sb 1953
 :) :) :) :) :)
12
Postwar 170S / Re: 170S, Sb model description
« Last post by Marc1340 on December 01, 2019, 03:16:59 AM »
Hello Lars

First : Great many thanks for your reply and your informations.
I understand perfectly for the translation , I'm also playing sometime with english, german, french .... and its not so easy ..
I agree also with your opinion for the 170Sb witch is the top of the line for sure


For the differences between 170S and 170Sb  I note on my side  and with your help  :

Engine
- timing chain /Sb 

gear boxe
-different synchronization / Sb = better ( mean different gear boxe housing or only internal componments ?
-speed shifting on the column / Sb  ( mean also a different weeling column and the different carpet ?  )

Transmission
- hypoid rear axle /Sb  mean different ratio , different alignment , different housing ( sealed not on middle )   

Body
- different rear track + 15 mm  =  1 435 mm / Sb  ( mean different subframe ?  )
- Different body between S and Sb ( witch is similar than 220)  because of the rear window more large on Sb
- Wood Rubber on rear window disappear on the same time = march 1952  / Sb and new caoutchouc ruber most large appear 
- On the same time exterior chrome ring appear on the rear window  /Sb
- Rear trunk hinges inside the trunk and not visible / Sb

Interior
- Starting button on the dashboard  / Sb 


Please could you give me more informations about these points you'd written :

Another firewall  =  due to the speed shifting or ?
heatingsystem = what is different between Sb and S ?  did the heating system is optionnal like the 170S or not ?   
dashboard = due to the engine starting button ?   
thicker frame =  where is différent ? and what is the value 
headliner = whitch differences ?  on matérial ?   
door locks = whitch differences  ?
door handles = whitch differences ?
cardan shaft = whitch differences  ?

More that points , could you please also confirm me some others points of view  :

- Somebody explain that the chrome button on the dash board is different between S and Sb model ?

- The exteriors foot plates( under front and rear back wings)   are different between S and Sb models

 
Another Gentleman  ( John ELLIS)  noted some others differences

- The fuel mixture throtle control  was eliminated  on S model until 1951 , not present on Sb model ?     

- On 170 S model 1949 - optional heater made standard mean that is the same for 170 Sb ? 

- On 170 S model 1950 - external hinged spare wheel mount available as factory option , mean that for the 170Sb its not possible to install an spare wheel mounting system ? 
 
 
Many thanks in advance for your help
Best regards
Marc
13
Postwar 170S / Re: 170S, Sb model description
« Last post by braveman170 on November 30, 2019, 04:01:05 PM »
Hi Marc,

I have not uploaded any document in English.
I tried to translate it to English but I found out that I was no good at technical English.
With Google translate the result was no good.

I haven't fulfilled my idea...

My personal opinion:
The 170Sb is the version with most options and equipment. Top of the line.
The models 170S-V and 170D-S comming after are stripped and cheaper versions.

Positive.
170Sb has a timing chain
170Sb has a Hypoid rear axle with another ratio
170Sb has a better gearbox more similar to the Ponton

Negative:
The column shift is very tricky....often replaced with a stick shift lid.

And as I have witten before there are many differences 170S(W136) to 170Sb(W191)

The 170Sb has the same body as the 220 (W187) with a lager rear window.
Anoter firewall, heatingsystem, dashboard, Steering Wheel, thicker frame, headliner, door locks, door handles, rubber carpets, cardan shaft,

Many of these things you do not notice at your first sight.

Have a nice day!


Best Regards

Lars
14
220 / Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Last post by Azryael on November 28, 2019, 06:28:49 PM »
Looking really good!

It's nice to see the progress you've made on your project, and it looks like you're on the home stretch.
15
Postwar 170S / Re: 170S, Sb model description
« Last post by Marc1340 on November 28, 2019, 05:49:37 PM »
I have written a document explaining the differences between 170S and 170Sb. But it is written in Swedish.
Since I have worked a lot with both 220(W187), 170S and 170Sb I have seen many more differences than you think exists.
To buy a 170S as spareparts-car to a 170Sb is no good at all.
I think 170Sb has more parts equal to a 220(W187) than a 170S.
Lars

Hello Lars, Gentlemen
First , excuse me for coming like that on your post.
I have on project to buy a 170Sb and I try to get lore information’s.
Please I’m not finding the file you’d writted ( on english) about the differences between 170 S to 170Sb
Is this possible for you to join it on this thread ?? Or mp if you want?  Or ?
Many thanks for your help
Best regards
Marc

16
220 / Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Last post by Scott Montoney on November 27, 2019, 07:31:02 PM »
Thanks for the photo and keeping us posted.
Scott
17
220 / Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Last post by yan2947 on November 27, 2019, 08:12:29 AM »
Here it is
18
220 / Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Last post by yan2947 on November 26, 2019, 07:27:43 AM »
The eagle has landed.  Motor in...
20
220 / Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Last post by yan2947 on November 03, 2019, 12:56:20 PM »
Thanks Henry.  I believe we are going to use the original one.  Seems to be ok but if need be I will contact you.  Thank you!

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