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Author Topic: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback  (Read 3580 times)

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Offline Benzdream

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Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« on: April 03, 2010, 02:37:06 AM »
I just joined today after many weeks and long hours on several sites and I'm pretty sure this is the best site for enthusiasts of prewar Mercedes. I hope to be spending more time getting to know some of you and sharing an interest.

In the meantime I have a car story that has been weaving its way into my life in the last few months and now I need some help from the experts, the owners and that means you.

I have been given the opportunity to rescue a 1937 Mercedes from a very far away location from my home that will require me to fly many hours and then drive several more to see it in person. Unfortunately for me the circumstances that have brought this opportunity to me involve only bits and pieces of information from one or two surviving members of the family (who are not car people at all, which doesn't help). 

At this point in my story I have no choice but to physically make the commitment of time and resources, make the long journey and arrange for it's return to my home here in Vancouver. I can't get any photo's, serial numbers or other identifying information other than what I have so far but will only when I make the trip in a few weeks.

This is what I know (based on eye witness accounts) of the car so far:

It has been in dry storage for about 60 or more years
It is a 2 door car
It is a convertible
It has an extra metal roof
It has been described as a 'smaller' type car
It has 'gold' type wheels (not sure if they are wire wheels or metal disc type rims)
It has a dash that has been described as 'pearl' or 'ivory like'
It has a small rear seat that isn't really suitable for sitting in (possible a single seat?)
It is in original condition and in 'very, very good condition'

I have narrowed it down to the best of my abilities over the last few weeks but I wanted to ask for the forum's help in identifying the possible models that could match features like these. For that matter, whether or not these features are even found on one particular car from 1937.

I will spare you the details of the entire story for now as it is the kind of story that is almost unbelievable in terms of how it has been left untouched for so long...but I will share the story, video and pictures of my 'adventure' once I actually see and retrieve the car.

In the meantime, I need to get some help identifying possible models and try to determine the value of such models in an un-restored state.

Thank you so much for reading!

Any suggestions about possibilities?

Benzdream


   

Offline Des

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2010, 07:04:22 AM »
Welcome to the forum!


None of the Cabriolet's at the time had a metal top, the frame was metal but the actual covering was a soft top, unlike the later Pagoda, SL's which had the soft and hard tops.

Smallish, makes it sound like a 170 roadster like this do you think?

http://www.170220.com/prewar_sight/index.php?cat=10


have you looked through our pre war gallery of cars?

http://www.170220.com/prewar_sight/



Keep us posted on developments.


Kind Regards
Des



Offline roadster36

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2010, 08:58:30 AM »
Des ,

I think you made a mistake  ;)

Benzdream ,
what you told us is indeed a dream. :o
i guess this can be only one car and that is a Mercedes 320  n combinations coupe

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/mb320n.htm

If it is a  Mercedes 320 combinations coupe   it is a very rare and expensive car
a car in storage over 60 years is not able to survive a long distance trip at once
you have to check if the engine is turning around by hand first
you need a new battery
fresh oil in engine gearbox and rear axle
new sparkplugs etc ,etc
lot of rust in the gasoline tank
New master- and Brake cilinders
In other words arrange a trailer

Ask Henry Magno for help  :)
He is also here in the forum and he owns the same car
Regards
Jan
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 10:54:07 AM by roadster36 »

Offline John Ellis

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 12:44:42 PM »
Jan is correct, sounds like a 320n Combination Coupe.  Another tell tale sign of the 320 compination coupe is the split windshield.

Here is a picture of Henry Magno's car.

John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline John Ellis

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2010, 01:58:58 PM »
Here are pictures of the 320n cabriolet A which is a soft top version.  This has pictures of the dash and upholstery, engine, etc.

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C114472/
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline Benzdream

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2010, 03:42:15 PM »
Many, many thanks for your fast and I believe accurate ID.  ;)

I began my research into this car as an enthusiast of cars (I am a sales manager at a Chrysler store) and my passion and natural curiosity has allowed me to become a real fan of these cars. I'm also passionate about preserving history and this car could be a great find for any fan of 1930's era MB's. 8)

Having said that, I too am quite certain it is the Typ 320 N Kombinations-Coupe (W142). I have many pages of notes and a yesterday I boiled them all down to a graph of possibilities here. You're welcome to take a look and offer comments if you like.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhztsfnxV42rdGRySkFNcEdINzlVUGpSVjV1S3BJMVE&hl=en

I am curious though as to what it might have as a value unrestored.  ???Also based on the car having all of its original parts intact, how much it would cost me to restore the car (or have it done)... and of course if it is restored properly, what I might expect to find its value at.

All of these questions are important in order to help me plot a course of action in terms of project length, budget and ultimately whether or not I can make the commitment in money and time to see it through myself, or alternately find partners or sell it outright.

Benzdream

P.S. Yes Jan, I have already made preliminary arrangements for a shipping container ::)

   
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 03:54:06 PM by Benzdream »

Offline roadster36

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2010, 08:57:12 PM »
Hello Benz Dream,

Hard to say
the construction of the car is a wooden frame
if the wood must be replaced ,it is an expensive restoration
the complete car has to be dismantled
Wen it is  only chassis /engine restoration , repaint, and upholstery
it is very easy to spend 100.000 euro
And it depend on were restore the car in New Zealand , Poland or Ukraine you save a couple  Dollars
The combinations coupe is very rare
for a normal 320 cab A value restored 300.000 to 350.000 euro`s

Please contact Henry
He has also a restorationshop knows a lot more of these cars ,because aim a dreamer of this kind of Mercedes models to :P

Regards Jan

 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 09:08:57 PM by roadster36 »

Offline Benzdream

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 04:31:00 PM »
Roadster36... do you know where I can find accurate production numbers of the 320A Kombination... I have seen the ones from prewarcar but is there somewhere else to research?

Offline John Ellis

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 07:12:24 PM »
One of the best sources for detailed information on Mercedes Benz is Werner Oswald's volumes entitiled Mercedes Benz Personenwagen 1886-1945 Band 1.  He lists the 1937 production volume of all 320 models (W142) as 900.  Serial numbers for 320's during this year were 172 001 thru 173 110.  Unfortunately for your research, these numbers represent the production of all W142 chassis, including short frame 320n, and regular frame 320, and of course all the body styles of which there were 13 different types.

We do know that the 320n combination coupe is a very rare body type.  Some of our members may have the production breakdowns from their research and perhaps Henry knows from his own research. 

You can always ask Mercedes Benz to do research from their museum archives.
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline alsancle

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 02:21:34 PM »
There are only 2 or 3 known Combination Coupes in existence right now.  Even a very rough car would be worth at least 150-200k US.    Restoration in the U.S. could easily run over 300k if done by a reputable professional shop.  Final value is hard to say as none of these cars has ever publicly traded to my knowledge.   I wouldn't be surprised if it was around 500k.

That said,  I'm wondering why you don't have any photographs of the car?   Also, it has been my experience that when given limited tidbits of detail about a car where signs point to a great discovery,  9 out of 10 times the car will be something less.  The reason for this is simple math.  Great discoveries are great because they were rare and desirable to begin with.  There are just not that many to start with while similar looking yet not nearly as desirable cars were made in mass.   Years later it is easy for the non-expert to be confused and the story begins...

Here is a great example of this phenomenon with regards to a Reo Royale:

http://forums.aaca.org/f119/1932-reo-royale-convertiable-coupe-277904.html

You need to read to the end to find out what the car really was.


Offline roadster36

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 06:32:39 PM »
I know 3 pieces
the one from Henry
Mecedes benz has one
And there was an other one , sold a few years back by Thiessen or Mirbach

Production numbers always a problem
During the war  a great part of the  Mercedes archive is lost

Jan
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 01:19:49 AM by roadster36 »

Offline Des

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 08:57:17 PM »
Hello Jan, Henry

Is this the car you refer to that MB owns?


thanks.



Offline roadster36

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 01:10:35 AM »
Hello Des ,

Yes it is

Jan

Offline alsancle

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2010, 11:52:48 AM »
There have been a few of the very similar short chassis Cab "A"s sold in the last 10 years or so but I do not recall Thiessen or Mirbach having a Comb coupe, at least since 2000 when I started paying attention.

I would love to see some pictures of the car in question here.    I hate to be negative but so many times I've been on the chase and rarely is there a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.  Of course, it could still be something quite interesting.

Offline roadster36

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2010, 02:38:19 PM »
Hello A.J.

It is indeed a few years ago.
As far as i remember it was complete black and found in Scandinavia.
never seen the car again ,perhaps  it is now the Stuttgart 320?

about the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
wen  i bought my 170v roadster ,MB told me that only 7 pieces survived .
in the mean time i have collect at the internet 26 differend survived 170v roadsters.

Regards Jan
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 05:09:09 PM by roadster36 »

Offline roadster36

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2010, 06:19:34 PM »
Benz dream

found in the 320 thread


The 320 N Kombinations-Coupe is the transformer-car of the 30's with a 2-mode drive as either a coupe or a cabriolet. Design was taken a step further with the vehicle having received a more streamlined body complete with corrugated sidelines and flawlessly interlinked door sills and front/rear fenders. Only the front end with double-row side vents and wheel design was carried over form the regular models. While the car can easily pass as a coupe, it actually sports a carefully camouflaged removable hard-top for open-top driving enthusiasts. Although the vehicle was visually revamped, it was powered by the same 6-straight 78 hp petrol engine.

There are also Worksphoto`s

http://www.170220.com/170smf/index.php?topic=619.msg7600#msg7600

Jan

       
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 06:22:53 PM by roadster36 »

Offline Des

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2010, 04:03:52 AM »
Thanks Jan, for some reason I didn't see above that you posted the same photo.


Here is a few more nice photos of this car


enjoy!



Offline Stephen Dietrich

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Re: Mystery Merc....I need some feedback
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 10:27:41 AM »
Here we are almost 3 months later from your initial post, have you been able to actually see the car or at least get some pictures? Stephen
Stephen Dietrich
1952 MBZ 170Da OTP
1952 MBZ 300 Cabriolet
1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
1962 Porsche 356B Super