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Author Topic: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)  (Read 24212 times)

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Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2015, 02:46:02 PM »
Starting some suspension work in the rear adapting a new suspension all together, but for the sake of ensuring proper ride height and wheel height, what are the tire sizes going to be? I've got the original 15x6(7?) wheels back home, but neglected to take note of the tire sizes before I had them dismounted.

Offline Charles Adamson

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2015, 04:35:17 PM »
My 1951 220 had 6.40 x 15 original tire size.

What modification are you doing to the suspension?

Charles

Offline CraigS

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2015, 06:58:36 PM »
6.40 x 15 is also correct for the 170s.

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2015, 02:58:24 PM »
Looking now for a rear suspension assembly, minus the diff, and I don't need the springs either.

Basically I need the axle assembly, but without the differential itself in it.

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2015, 11:46:38 AM »
I have some parts if you want to contact me with more specifics as to what you need. It's a little hard to imagine what your mods are.


Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2015, 03:23:14 PM »
Sent you a PM. Been all around these last few weeks.

Grandfather was recently diagnosed with cancer, so I've taken on being a fulltime caregiver for him.

Life just delays one project for another :(

Offline JCA Tacoma

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2015, 04:29:35 AM »
170 S Engine: There are more parts for these engines today than 20 years back. Parts can be found and at Ok prices. Nothing that is good is cheap, but good stuff can be found. The gear boxes are almost indestructible.  There are parts for them as well. Try to keep the car original. In the long run it is the best value. Modern engine and gear box is tempting, and certainly simpler in many ways, but it is not original.

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2015, 02:19:03 PM »
Try to keep the car original. In the long run it is the best value. Modern engine and gear box is tempting, and certainly simpler in many ways, but it is not original.

As previously stated, the car will NEVER be sold once it's done. I will be keeping it. Value is NOT a concern.

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2015, 02:22:16 PM »
The only rust cancer this car has, resulted from some damage in the rear.

If someone has a spare body they don't mind cutting up, I'd like that portion between the lines in the photo below.

I can easily weld that in place. That current damage is just too much to attempt to fix. It's best to cut and weld a better piece.



No dents or dings anywhere else, so this is the only issue with the body at the moment. As you might imagine, it keeps the trunk from being able to be closed all the way too.

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2015, 01:39:39 PM »
Trying to determine what the issue is with my driver's side door handle. All it does is spin around and clicks after every revolution. Is that because the handle is locked? Or is there something broken? All the other handles function as they should.

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2016, 04:43:12 PM »
No suggestions?

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2016, 08:35:17 PM »
When the handle is locked, it will spin around. When unlocked, a pawl is under spring tension and when it lines up with the slot in the handle casting itself it is forced in and locks the casting to the inner shank. One of the failure modes is for the slot to wear out it's edges, and the pawl doesn't catch anymore.

Do you have the key?

Offline Scott Montoney

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2016, 08:38:40 PM »
Well, I can only guess. 
If the 170S handle is like the 220 handle, then I can confirm that my handle will spin freely when in the locked position.  I don't hear what I would call a "click", but there is a small noise.
Also, in the case of my handle, when the key slot is toward the handle, it is in the locked (free spinning) position.  When the key slot is towards the outside (facing towards the front of the car) then the shaft is engaged and the handle operates as expected.
Again, that is how my 220 is currently working.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2016, 09:17:04 PM »
I need to get the key from my friend who still has it.

As long as I know that the free-spinning aspect is indeed because it's "locked", that's all I need to know!

Interesting that all the other handles when locked don't budge at all.

Will remind him to bring in the key so I can confirm it works with no issues.

My trunk lock/handle is a different story, and was broken off when I got the car. I can take some photos of it so y'all can see what I'm talking about.

Now I just need to figure out how to best deal with that cancer in the rear.

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2016, 09:52:33 PM »
Does anyone happen to have a few photos of the rear suspension of these cars (preferably out of the vehicle) that I can examine?

Since they yanked the one out of my car and shipped it off to the person who bought it before I bought the rest of the car (still wish I had been told this), I don't have it anymore to examine in person.

Since I'm going with the Miata motor and transmission, I'd like to see if the rear diff can be adapted to the original suspension. If it can, that will save me some serious time and effort trying to source and adapt a solid rear axle out of a small pickup onto the car.

If it can, that means I will need the entire rear suspension (springs included since mine were cut, unless someone knows a source for new ones).

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #55 on: February 29, 2016, 04:22:06 PM »
This is the diff I'll be using:



As long as I don't hurt the core of the assembly, I can cut and weld where needed.

Looking at everything now, will the stock drum brake system be sufficient to stop the vehicle? With the 1.8L BP-4W, I'll likely only see about 135HP, but that's still a significant increase over the stock 50-something or so HP.

Obviously with the whole rear of my car gone, I don't have any brakes in the rear to begin with. As for the front, passenger side drum is there, but driver's side is gone. What are my options for new/used replacement drums? What else should I refresh and where can I get these components?

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2016, 12:15:18 AM »
Plans have changed!

After test fitting a Miata B6ZE today, and discovering a few things about it I didn't like, I've decided to do this right and keep the motor choice in the MB family.

While I won't be using an original 1.8 M136, I've instead decided on either a 2.3L M102 (there's a 5-speed manual on an M103 190E 2.6 that I know will fit the M102 at my local yard) or an M111.

There is far too little space for an M103 or any straight-6.

You can see that the Miata gearbox is rather LONG, and it sits back an ungodly amount:


MB boxes are shorter and I would likely have all the space I need with an MB I4. I think I'd be back in the same boat of not having enough space with the M103.

The other thing that makes an MB motor more appealing is that it dumps its exhaust on the right. The B6ZE dumps on the left, and even with a custom exhaust manifold may impinge upon the steering column. The intake on both the M102 and the M111 would sit higher and above the steering column, so no issues there. I'll be setting the fenders and panels in place tomorrow to get a better idea of how far I can move any motor further forward (have to consider radiator and fan spacing).

Anyway, some more photos from the test-fitting:





The front crossmember will need to be modified in some form, but I won't do that until I have the motor and gearbox I plan to use.

Progress is being made, slowly, but still being without an entire rear suspension has set me back.

Offline Ted

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2016, 06:05:45 AM »
How do you register such a thing? I've seen on the TV all kinds of hot rods, with great changes to the construction. Hell will freeze long before I'd be able to register such a thing in my country  ;D But seems just everything is allowed in the States?

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2016, 02:15:20 PM »
How do you register such a thing? I've seen on the TV all kinds of hot rods, with great changes to the construction. Hell will freeze long before I'd be able to register such a thing in my country  ;D But seems just everything is allowed in the States?

It's too old to be held to emissions standards and most states don't care what's under the hood as long as it passes safety inspections for those that have them!

But the thing is, this car will look more original than hot-rod, so it'll raise less flags to begin with if I were concerned about such things!

It seems I'm the first to do this to a W136, so I'm exploring new territory here.

Since the 6-speed on the M111 is much shorter, I may not have to do much cutting at all! In fact, I'd rather add than take away. I just need to source an M111 and the manual transmission with it to begin the process of getting it mounted to the frame, and fabricating a transmission mount.

Still, the rear end is shaping up to be my biggest hurdle. The stock rear end would have an ungodly amount of body roll, especially with a supercharged motor going around corners, but I feel adapting a beefy swaybar (easily doable) would significantly reduce body roll and give the rear better stability. But, I don't have my stock rear anymore to test that with. :(

Offline Azryael

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Re: 1951 170S Restoration (San Antonio, Texas)
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2016, 02:50:47 AM »
Haven't done all too much to this car, just haven't had the time!

I'm considering perhaps selling the shell and everything I have with it (minus the rear differential since that was yanked off the car and sold to someone on here by Corky) to look for something a little more in the style of what I want.

These cars have fantastic lines and it's got a lot of potential, but for a 50s Mercedes, the Ponton W120/121 or even the W186/189 are more aesthetically pleasing to me.

Unfortunately there's likely no one in Texas with either of those who would even consider making a trade!

As the years have gone by, I've come to realize that putting all this work into a car I'm not exactly in love with, isn't perhaps the best investment of my time.