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Author Topic: 1937 170V Roadster  (Read 17569 times)

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Offline Ron B

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1937 170V Roadster
« on: May 25, 2013, 09:55:14 PM »
First off,this isn't my car but it's one I am working on. It's a very special car,having been delivered new to Java in 1937. It was returned to the factory in 1947 and  the body work was updated. Over the decades it was kept running in a very haphazard fashion resulting in some hokey repairs. I've been searching for info everywhere but one thing that really sticks out is the fact that most of the fastners on this model are smaller than the post war cars. For example, the large bolt in the diff support at the rear. This is missing,possibly oxy'd out by the previous guy who worked on it. I have also found that the two smaller bolts in the support are different so it looks as though I will have to make a pair of those too.  The have been a lot of bits changed on this car so if anyone has pics of the prewar chassis in hi res mode i would love to see them.
 In the meantime i have been occupied rebuilding the steering box, which after a lot of searching on the net has been revealed to me as a ZF Ross type 540 . The one with the gold plated bearings. $415 for the cups!!!. Each...
Pics to follow. Cheers! For Now.

Offline roadster36

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2013, 05:01:26 PM »
Hi Ron,
if you have some questions ,i own a unrestored roadster in pretty good shape.
There are diferences in prewar and postwar chassis.
The bolts of the difs is one of them ;D
post war you can remove the main centerbolt.
prewar  not , it is welded on the chassis.

Why dont you look for a second hand steeringbox.

love to see your pics ;D

you find pics of my roadster here

http://forums.aaca.org/f123/prewar-mercedes-benz-297850-18.html

Regards Jan
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 05:06:03 PM by roadster36 »

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 06:48:55 AM »
Yours is the green one ? I have been working on this one For two days sorting out parts and I maybe doing a search for bits as innocuous  as bolts(!) and things as obvious as the lever arm shocks. Attached is a couple of pics showing the modifications done at Daimler in the 1940's.  The left hand fender has been damaged at some time and some pretty rough repair work carried out. The right side exhibits the orignal Daimler workmanship,note the dead smooth weld  8)

 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 06:51:46 AM by Ron B »

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 07:03:42 AM »
Some pics after it arrived and was being stripped down for a closer investigation.  The cylinder head was full of silicone sealer,so much so,that coolant couldn't  flow into the radiator.  :-[ So here is a question,how many RHD units were built?  ;D

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 07:13:18 AM »
 Jan, Regarding the steering box, I doubt very much that I would ever find a good used Right Hand Drive  prewar steering box  :D. Thankfully these are a simple unit . The pitman shaft is cracked along it's length so I will be using one from a 'S' steering box,same part as it happens .  This car also has the early style long drag link with the bend in it and the pitman arm is kinked.

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 09:58:38 AM »
On the rear axle bolts, I think the difference in sizes is between the 170 V and 170 S, the post-war 170 V bolts are probably the same as pre-war. I'll look and see what I have.

What parts on the steering box are particular to the RHD, other than the case and apparently the Pitman arm?  The early post-war steering boxes I think are the same as the pre-war box, with the large set screw to lock the upper worm nut. That said, you can still fit the newer style box (Type 542) if you have to. You may have to use the mounting bracket from the car as that may be roadster/Cab A specific.

I have some of these boxes and parts, but not RHD.

Offline roadster36

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 12:07:16 PM »
Ron

Yes the green one is mine.

You mean the engine was overheated and is broken now?
Richt engine motors are very rare
in that case maybe you can chance from richt to left steering.
The dashboard isnt Original ether so you can chance it at the same time. ;D
What i see on your pictures there has been a lot of modifications during the years
The fan blade , exhaust pipe together with the airfilter are not correct.

I guess  this is the roadster you are working on now.

is it possible that you send me a sheet of papier with the shape of the rear wheel cover ;D
I sent you a paper with the shape of the correct dash.

Regards Jan
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 01:09:21 PM by roadster36 »

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 08:32:49 AM »
On the rear axle bolts, I think the difference in sizes is between the 170 V and 170 S, the post-war 170 V bolts are probably the same as pre-war. I'll look and see what I have.

What parts on the steering box are particular to the RHD, other than the case and apparently the Pitman arm?  The early post-war steering boxes I think are the same as the pre-war box, with the large set screw to lock the upper worm nut. That said, you can still fit the newer style box (Type 542) if you have to. You may have to use the mounting bracket from the car as that may be roadster/Cab A specific.

I have some of these boxes and parts, but not RHD.
Hi Henry  :), This is supposed to be a 1937 car but I suspect it's earlier .It may have arrived in Java in 1937. The steering box,a Ross ZF 540 is somewhat different in appearance to the immediate post war steering box. I have the remnants of one here which i pulled the pitman shaft from.  The early steering box has a bracket which allows for more rake in the column ,the later one is a one peice casting .
I also think the bracket is like this because the column is slightly more raked.
I have the bolts also from the 1947Va which are bigger ,If I have too ,I can turn them down to make them smaller , I've spoken with ther guy who pulled the engine and he says he doesn't have the parts... :'(
What we do need are a pair of lever arm shocks for the front. Condition not really important as we can rebuild them here,also ,I think the links for the front axle to the shock absorbers are missing too. I dont think the car was driveable in the state the engine was in ,so the lack of shocks would not have been a problem... :D
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 08:46:41 AM by Ron B »

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 08:42:32 AM »
Ron

Yes the green one is mine.

You mean the engine was overheated and is broken now?
Richt engine motors are very rare
in that case maybe you can chance from richt to left steering.
The dashboard isnt Original ether so you can chance it at the same time. ;D
What i see on your pictures there has been a lot of modifications during the years
The fan blade , exhaust pipe together with the airfilter are not correct.

I guess  this is the roadster you are working on now.

is it possible that you send me a sheet of papier with the shape of the rear wheel cover ;D
I sent you a paper with the shape of the correct dash.

Regards Jan
Yes Jan ,thats her! ;). The entire wood frame for the body has now been completely rebuilt ,using as much as was possible  of the original. Unfortunaltely life in the tropics was hard on it.  Most of the floor has been rebuilt ,again using a lot of the original steel . This required cutting the steel panels off where they were originally welded together ,repairing them and then welding them back on again . At one point the body was a pile of wood on the floor..ha ha.
PM your postal address and i'll send a pattern of the spare wheel cover to you.
We have gathered up enough parts from a donor sedan to provide parts to rebuild the engine. And that includes the updraft carburetor ,exhaust,proper fan etc. All that other stuff has been sent to the scrap  ;D
I see a little plaque on the trans bell housing which appears to be a factory rebuild plate. This was possibly fitted when the car went back to the factory.
 

Offline roadster36

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 04:53:13 PM »
I see a little plaque on the trans bell housing which appears to be a factory rebuild plate. This was possibly fitted when the car went back to the factory.

That is very common.
you see it also on enginebloks.
It means  its an Original Mercedes spare part.
Is the bell house separate or is in one piece together with the gearbox
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 04:54:55 PM by roadster36 »

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 05:06:58 AM »
Its single peice trans case.

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 05:10:17 AM »
The body loosely reassembled to check clearances

Offline roadster36

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 11:58:02 AM »
Nice pictures Ron
Thank you
its always a help by the restoration.

Offline roadster36

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 04:22:44 PM »
How do you remove the paint
sand /soda blasting?  ore  paint remover

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 06:20:46 AM »
We have a very skilled sandblaster who does all of the major work for us.  I will be starting on the engine rebuild very soon . All the machine work has been done  and we have pistons etc etc all ready to go in.
I was just reading the part color thread ,so I was interested to note that under the black paint on the gearbox ,it's green . i will ask the painter to get a match and a formula .
What I want to know is...what was the color under the body?
Were the chassis gloss black,semi gloss or matt finished?
Were the various brackets,satin black or gloss black?
The bolts would have been black oxide coated i imagine. on my 220a they are all black oxide with very little cad plating.

 

Offline roadster36

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2013, 10:09:43 AM »
i dont have the answers :-[

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2013, 08:31:36 AM »
your original steering column was chromed? i have yet took at the column from this car to see if it was chromed but the side cover and the breather are chromed.

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2013, 11:55:36 AM »
Steering column was chromed, but not the breather and side cover. But since this car was reworked, you probably will never know the answer as to when this may have been done. The answer of flatness of black paints you will probably never know either. Even if it's very original, you can't know what gloss it originally had. There is good evidence for the green engine paint in 320's, might have been a Mannheim plant thing. I'm not positive on the 170 V. The car we are completing, I used semi flat/semi gloss black for all parts, chassis, under body, and inside, except the engine which I did in gloss black. I though it would be more durable. Not swearing that is correct, but a safe choice if you aren't sure. A lot of the smaller chassis parts, engine brackets I plated and left them that way, black zinc phosphate. I'd say there is minimal bright plating, mostly on the carburetor.

On the steering box, not all later boxes have one piece castings,  some of the 542 are two piece. I did put a later box in my 38.

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 06:54:45 AM »
I am in the process of building the engine ,using a later block,crank and cam. Pistons and valves are new. Henry,  Regarding any work done in the 40's ,the block that was in the car is dated 1939. it's a shame it was so badly damaged as it would have made a nice touch to leave it in the car. Unfortunately the block is corroded through the sides(!) . A couple of other projects are nearing completion so I will be flat out on those ,but i have to make a pattern for the spare wheel cover  ( I haven't forgotten R36  ;) ) and I'm still trying to track down a set of lever shocks.. :)

Offline Ron B

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Re: 1937 170V Roadster
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2013, 07:03:41 AM »
progress has been slow (i have been working on a few other cars) but yesterday revealed that the NOS exhaust manifold bought for this project ,doesn't fit.... As can ber seen,the NOS manifold was made in 1953 so it would be for a 170Va ,I guess .The intake doesn't begin to look like fitting. The car came with a S type down draft manifold and some sort of odd carburetor (possibly off a mazda or Toyota) .The other exhaust manifold that came with the replacement engine block has had some adventurous welding done to repair a crack at some time in the past.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 07:07:40 AM by Ron B »