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Author Topic: What colors should be some parts:  (Read 7514 times)

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Offline Ted

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What colors should be some parts:
« on: May 29, 2013, 04:13:14 AM »
I am again into painting some bits and pieces, so can you please tell me, what color must be these. On the prewar 170v, 4 door:

- Oil filling cap?
- Fan /probably black?/
- The steering wheel column
- The side lid for the valves
- The rotating front part of the water pump, on which are the belt and the fan /black?/

Thanks!

Offline John Ellis

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2013, 09:18:00 AM »
Hard to say what the original colors were .... so many of the engine compartments of the pre-war cars have been modified in some way.  Generally, my observation is everything is black except for aluminum parts which are left uncoated.  Oil caps seem to have the greatest difference black, red, or chrome;  this could be because of replacement caps.  Oil dipstick black or red?

Would like to hear what others know about the engine compartment paint colors for pre-war 170V.
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2013, 11:50:30 AM »
in my opinion

everything Black incl fan blade , sidelid valves, waterpump

i guess waterpump belt peice was original bare metal but i prefer a nice black spray on that one to

 oil filling cap and dipstick red

stering wheel colum, chrome

most parts that are replaced for post ware parts are:

cylinderhead  must be cast iron
waterpump must be an open one
airfilter must be a round one


Offline Ted

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2013, 12:00:43 PM »
Thanks for your responses!

I was looking at this great photo from our Gallery: http://www.170220.org/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1357

It shows exactly that - lighter color engine /gray? Pea-green?/ with black parts. The fan is partly seen, black. The filling cap seems black, too. Although I guess a moderate to dark red would look like black, in a black&white picture? The steering column indeed looks like chromed. But isn's it a Cabr. car, two tone paint?

BTW the pipe filter would be correct for a prewar car, too, not just the round one. It appears in the later editions of the Ersatzteiliste.


Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2013, 12:29:20 PM »
This is a factory picture 170v 1936
note the shipestar only 36

as you can se the engineblock is not black ;D

notice the generator has no cooling vents

oil filling cap is not black , so i guess red




« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 12:36:06 PM by roadster36 »

Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2013, 12:37:17 PM »
Hee thats nice almost the same picture
it is not the same car ;D
your picture must be 1939 or 1940 model because of the bigger fueltank
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 12:41:12 PM by roadster36 »

Offline Ted

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 12:54:42 PM »
Yes, the prewar engines are not black, for sure. Must be gray or gray-green? Maybe that's the color, the car is 2-3 years older and much much bigger model than the 170V, but maybe that's the correct green engine?



And another thing: on some prewar photos I see bolts on the head. On other - nuts. What would be the correct assembly for a 1938 engine, nuts or bolts on the head?

Offline Paavo

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 01:32:14 PM »
Hello

Here is picture of my -37 engine.
I think grey is correct color, but I can see black color in valve cover.
Look original factory picture above. Valve cover is black.

~Paavo~
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 01:34:22 PM by Paavo »
Sorry.  Bad English

Offline Ted

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 01:54:25 PM »
Here is mine. After it was rebuilt, it was dark green /like the water pump in the photo/. I was not happy with the color and tried to match the color of the big mercedes engine, from the previous post. Unfortunately in the catalog the color looked different, than the final result on the engine - too bright, I think. So, now I doubt, whether to repaint it again. What do you think, is this color too far off the truth?  :)

Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 05:03:22 PM »
Hello Ted

I think it is ;D
And i mis the holder for the bobine   (is Bobine the correct word in Englisch?)
it must be fitted with the same bolts on the cylinderhead.

Jan
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 05:18:13 PM by roadster36 »

Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2013, 05:31:11 PM »
Hello Ted

I think it is ;D
And i mis the holder for the bobine   (is Bobine the correct word in Englisch?)
it must be fitted with the same bolts on the cylinderhead.

On the pictures of the car from Paavo and on this site i think grey is posible
http://www.mercedes170v.tabacaria.com.pt/index.htm

Jan

Offline John Ellis

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2013, 11:24:58 PM »
Great information!  Unfortunately it just brings up more questions.  When were:

  • studs and nuts replaced by bolts to secure the cylinder head?
  • the large intake filter replaced by the small cylindrical filter?
  • the round gas tank replaced by the larger oval tank?

Is Bobine an ignition coil?
John Ellis
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1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline John Ellis

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2013, 11:41:46 PM »
Just to add some more confusion .... here is a factory photo of the pre-war 170V with all black engine.  The oil filler cap looks lighter so could be red.
John Ellis
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1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 01:22:44 AM »
Strange foto , flat radiator and 4 spoke steeringwheel

I  went to my barn yesterday to see my old engine bloks.
Gues what? one was also grey ;D ;D ;D
now first at work .
a post a picture of it this evening.


Is Bobine an ignition coil?   Yesss  ;D
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 01:25:43 AM by roadster36 »

Offline Ted

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2013, 03:12:46 AM »
Yes, the coil holder is missing, but I'll add it /the head is removed again, bad NOS gasket  :(/. Ok then, the engine will change color once again  ;D

As for the last photo, I strongly suspect it is a postwar car. Flat radiator and pipe type airfilter, which indicates later series. But also black engine, 6-blade fan and rectangular brake liquid tank on the main cylinder, instead of the prewar round one. The rectangular brake cylinder did not appear until postwar, did it? Also, it has a thermostat on the water pipe on the head, this is postwar, too?

The round filter was replaced by the pipe filter before 1942. In the Ersatzteilliste Ausg. G, which shows the parts as of January 1942, the pipe filter is already there. Maybe someone has the previous edition to check?

Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2013, 10:03:06 AM »
John

i take a closer look at your picture ,it is prewar.
thermostat is prewar too , i frend of me makes a very nice copy ;D
rectangular brake cylinder, no idea wen that chanced
But we already concluded that its a later chassis.
i notice also a black steering collum.
painted wheelcap.
So i think it is the chassis for a delivery van or 4 door open tourer.
It is not for a VK (Kubel) the have a complete differend airfilter special for the desert
the 6 blades fan  that indicates its a tropical version.
I have ersatzteille liste ausgabe A und G so i cant see it. who have B<C<D<F?


Grey on 37 engine


other tone Grey on bellhouse


someone see this before?


copy of the thermostat
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 10:34:48 AM by roadster36 »

Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2013, 11:09:09 AM »
the other model thermostat

Offline roadster36

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Re: What colors should be some parts:
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2013, 05:03:13 PM »
i know a little bit more,
because  i have also a copy of the ersatzteilliste ausgabe C 1938

Great information!  Unfortunately it just brings up more questions.  When were:

    • studs and nuts replaced by bolts to secure the cylinder head?
    ausgabe C 1938 still studs and nuts
    on my 1939 engine already bolts


    • the large intake filter replaced by the small cylindrical filter?

    ausgabe C 1938 still large intake filter

    • the round gas tank replaced by the larger oval tank?
    ausgabe C 1938 still round gas tank


    Jan[/list]
    « Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 05:06:21 PM by roadster36 »

    Offline Ted

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    Re: What colors should be some parts:
    « Reply #18 on: May 30, 2013, 05:05:34 PM »
    Are you sure the thermostat is a prewar feature? In the 1942 Ersatzteilliste /G edition/, there is no thermostat, just the ordinary pipe. And 1942 was the final year of the 170V production, I think not many were made that year /somewhere, there was a chart with the production numbers per year, but can not find it now/. Also, my second engine, from 1942, has the ordinary pipe, not a thermostat.

    Offline roadster36

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    Re: What colors should be some parts:
    « Reply #19 on: May 30, 2013, 05:10:46 PM »
    Good Question

    nothing about a thermostat in ausgabe C 1938 ether ;D

    Has your 42 Engine an oilfilter?
    « Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 05:13:22 PM by roadster36 »