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Author Topic: W187 steering/ignition lock  (Read 5232 times)

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Offline bilgummi

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W187 steering/ignition lock
« on: June 02, 2013, 10:36:12 AM »
Hello,
has anyone dismantled a steering lock cylinder completely?
I have done it (some years ago) for rechroming purpose but now I cant remember how to install the small springs, steel balls and brass parts. A very special contruction, not like a normal lock.

 
 

Offline ereyal

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2013, 12:18:05 PM »
maybe some pictures?

Offline Stephen Dietrich

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2013, 01:33:50 PM »
Have you tried YouTube, there maybe something there.
Stephen Dietrich
1952 MBZ 170Da OTP
1952 MBZ 300 Cabriolet
1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
1962 Porsche 356B Super

Offline John Ellis

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2013, 05:36:39 PM »
I have taken mine apart, but can't remember the details (forgot to take pictures).  If you can wait until the weekend, I will disassemble my spare one with pictures this time.
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline bilgummi

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 06:55:00 AM »
I found nothing on youTube

Offline Scott Montoney

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2013, 08:58:25 PM »
I have not had mine apart.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline John Ellis

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 12:40:55 AM »
Well, this turned out to be a bigger project than I thought, and not for the faint of heart.  I took my spare steering / ignition lock  apart to hopefully help with "Bilgummi's" effort to reassemble his.  I thought I had done this before, but in reality I had taken apart the keyed door lock (considerably easier).  So this project was for my own curiosity and education .... besides, now I had an excuse.
I am going to describe the disassembly of the steering  / ignition lock so other will have an idea what the entire process is.
You begin by removing the steering lock assembly from the steering column.  This is another entire procedure which I am not going to describe, but is necessary because the cylinder lock is pinned to the lock housing and the pin is blocked by the steering column.  Picture 1 shows the location of the pin.  This pin needs to be drilled out in order to remove the cylinder lock.  The pin diameter is 4mm and you need to drill to a depth of 3mm to clear the housing.  Once the pin is drilled out, the cylinder lock will be free and slide out.  Picture 2 shows the removed cylinder lock and the hole for the retaining pin (now drilled out).
Next starts the fun part?  Picture 3 is a diagram of a typical cylinder lock assembly, which will help explain the next few steps.  The lock mechanism comprises the cylinder shell, cylinder, tumbler pins, driver pins, and tumbler springs.  The tumbler pins are matched to the individual key code length to enable the cylinder to spin freely when the key is inserted.  That said, there are pin chambers in the cylinder that house tumbler pins, and matching pin champers in the cylinder shell that house the driver pins and tumbler springs.  For our locks, the pin champers are accessed in two places on the diameter of the cylinder lock (see picture 4).   For me, it was necessary to punch a dimple in the cover in order to create a "handle" to assist in sliding the cover open; used a awl for coercion at the beginning and then lightly hammering a very small screwdriver against the cover end to complete the removal.  This is also where you have to be very careful,   the springs are in compression so there is the possibility .... no, surety that they will come flying out!  I spent a hour on my hands and knees look for a spring that escaped to the garage floor (see picture 5 - spring peeking out).
I removed the springs, driver pins, and tumbler pins; in that order.  The pins were initially tough to remove, until a sprayed an ample amount of lubricant in the chambers to help them overcome the years of "gunk" deposited on the pins and chambers.
There is another chamber, for a keyed stop that requires removing the springs and driver pins ( I already removed the tumbler pins in the first set of chambers).  Picture 6 shows all of the part disassembled (minus 1 spring that I found later).  Picture 7 top to bottom ... springs, driver pins, tumbler pins.  Picture 8 shows springs and driver pins from the second chamber group.  Picture 9 shows one of the empty chamber groups.
This is where my journey stopped.  I could find no way to remove the cylinder from the cylinder shell without damaging one or the other.  Mine appears to be swaged permanently, perhaps different on the 170S?  If anyone knows please let me know.
So anyway, assembly is just the reverse.  However, tumbler pin location is critical ... it of course has to match the key.  Here is a simple way to do that.  Place the pins in the key cuts so that the height of each pin is the same height across the length of the key (see picture 10).
Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 12:54:17 AM by John Ellis »
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline Scott Montoney

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 12:44:30 PM »
John,
Could you also show a photo of the back side of the cylinder?  I assume that "pin" engages something inside the housing. 
I'm just curious to see a few more angles of the entire lock assembly.  Although not specific to the tumblers/pins, could still be helpful some day.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline John Ellis

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 07:57:16 PM »
Here is a picture of the back end

John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline bilgummi

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 09:38:55 AM »
Thanks a lot John. I seems like the ball shall be in first hole, but I dont know in garage or stop position. Perhaps it does not matter. I took out the cylinder to get it rechromed, and I have to make new tumblers.
Very good documentation John!

Offline ereyal

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 10:37:49 AM »
Amazing post!!

Bravo!

Offline bilgummi

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 11:00:10 AM »
I now see that the ball is instead of a tumbler and have no influence of Stop or Garage position. Your key John have 3 cuttings, mine have 4, and therefor shall have no ball. The ball I found must be from earlier lock I have taken apart.

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2013, 07:34:40 AM »
You can take the plate with the driver pin off the back end of the cylinder by grinding away where it is peened on. I did this years ago on my 170 V but have avoided it since. Since you can't then peen it on again you have to solder or glue it on somehow. It was so long ago that I don't remember what we did. If it was solder, it was soft solder, not silver braze which would have been too hot. Given that I was uncertain that it would hold, I ground down the steering column lock pin so that it could not engage the steering column because if the plate came off the cylinder, the locking plunger could release and lock the column, not good if you are driving. It never did come apart in the ten years the car was operational with me and I haven't heard about any problems since.

In the current job we are doing, the lock worked and I had a key so I just cleaned up the face of the lock cylinder and left it alone. John, you didn't go into details about drilling out the pin, but in my opinion, that's a tricky job since it is steel and the housing is a zinc casting. If you have any tips on that, I'd like to hear. Did you manage to hold it in a drill press?

Offline braveman170

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 03:49:37 PM »
I have tried to drill out the pin with a handheld drill but it did not work. I stopped the project and did not want to destroy the lock.

And if you manage to drill enough to pull out the cylinder is it possible then to drill out the part of the pin that is still in the cylinder ?
Replace the pin with a screw?

What to do?
1953 170Sb W191
1967 250SE W111 Coupé
1994 E320 W124 Convertible

Offline John Ellis

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2013, 10:39:33 PM »
I used a drill press and controlled the depth to just clear the housing.  Started with a considerably smaller bit first. I was going to try a find a new pin, but I like the idea of a set screw and tapping the housing.
John Ellis
1953 170Vb
1958 190
2007 Porsche Cayman

Offline braveman170

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Re: W187 steering/ignition lock
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2013, 03:45:33 PM »
Thanks,

I will test with a press drill next time I get inspiration for this project.

Lars
1953 170Sb W191
1967 250SE W111 Coupé
1994 E320 W124 Convertible