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Author Topic: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration  (Read 63347 times)

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Offline yan2947

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  • Exterior Color: Black
  • Interior color: Red Leather W/Black Piping
  • Location: USA, New York
  • Year_Model: 1952 220 Sedan W187
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #340 on: January 03, 2019, 08:20:38 AM »
Scott, thanks again.  Kind of what I suspected but want sure.

Cheers
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #341 on: January 03, 2019, 08:54:14 AM »
Is there rubber that goes on the license plate lights and the bumper Embellishments so that they aren't directly metal-on-metal?
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Scott Montoney

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  • 1952 - 220 Cab B
  • Exterior Color: Black
  • Interior color: Red
  • Location: Mason,Ohio USA
  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #342 on: January 03, 2019, 10:30:21 AM »
Yes, I've seen black and gray, I think. . . .
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline Henry Magno

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  • Year_Model: 1952 220 Cab B, 1937 320 Sedan, 1937 320 Combination Coupe, 1938 320 Cab A LWB
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #343 on: January 21, 2019, 12:05:21 PM »
I don't think the license lights or the small embellishers had any gaskets against the bumper.

Yan are you still looking for the heater flap? I might have one but am not sure. I have some of these assemblies but I don't think that I would want to split up a complete unit.

Can I make a suggestion? I think you should paint your water pipes on the firewall. For extra protection I've been plating these black first, then painting.


Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #344 on: January 21, 2019, 04:22:00 PM »
Henry, thank you for your suggestion.  I will paint the water pipes black and would love your opinion on anything else you might see as I begin to assemble.  How do you plate them first?  Then you also paint them black?  What about the valve?
I would be interested in a complete heater box assembly if you have it.  I have been unable to find a used one as of yet.
Henry, so just the large bumper guards had the rubber?
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #345 on: January 26, 2019, 07:38:06 PM »
I have parts and hardware plated in black zinc phosphate. You must have had some hardware plated, no? I like plating some parts that are going to be painted for extra protection, especially threaded parts, since you really aren't going to effectively paint the threads on these pipes and things like the radiator stays. This is a picky thing. The valve is not painted.
Yes, only the large guards had rubber.

I will look for heater parts. If you have good main sections and I have a flap, I would rather sell the flap. Is the flap the same on both sides, I don't remember.

Offline Scott Montoney

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  • 1952 - 220 Cab B
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  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #346 on: January 26, 2019, 07:57:12 PM »
Yes, I checked my car today, and the large guards have gray rubber.  The lights did not have anything.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #347 on: January 27, 2019, 06:20:29 AM »
Henry, I have had some parts powder coated and some painted.  I have not done any zinc coating.  Do you dip them using chemicals yourself or do you send them out?  I will look into that.  Does powder coating offer the same protection?  I have a friend with a powder coating business and have used him for a bunch of parts.  I have the one flap here and will pick up my other heater box with flap.  I would assume they are the same but not sure.  Will let you know.  Black or gray rubber for bumper guard?  Which way to go?  I didn't have that.  Thank you!

Yan
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 07:03:11 AM by yan2947 »
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #348 on: January 27, 2019, 10:00:03 AM »
The flap appears to be flat. That's the one I have at my house and I assume both are the same way. Not sure if you can look at what you have Henry and see if I am correct. Here are two photos of that one flap.
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #349 on: January 27, 2019, 02:07:39 PM »
I send out the zinc plating. We do use a tool blackening product in the shop, in a pinch. It's not as durable as the black zinc phosphate that gets done by the industrial plater. Some of the parts that are brownish gray, like brackets and other MB specific parts were done in an iron phosphate process, sometimes known as "Bonderizing". Some people assume that this is untreated metal because of the color. My plater does not do this and maybe I will eventually find someone who does. The black zinc phosphate is not jet black unless it is oiled, so it suffices. For a really high quality finish on black, they do a zinc with black, or black over zinc, but this is more expensive because they have to wire hang all the parts. Supposedly it is also less scratch resistant. My plater will either oil the job or not. I'm not sure what that product is. Usually standard hardware I have oiled, but I rinse most of it off.

Here is my supplier for the blackening chemicals:

( SKU: PRE-45118 , Description: Metal Polish/Cleanser, 1 pint , Quantity: 2 )
( SKU: PRE-45109 , Description: Tool Black - one quart , Quantity: 1 )
Order Total: $106.34

Victor Machinery Exchange, Inc.
56 Bogart Street
Brooklyn, NY 11206-3817
Phone: 800.723.5359
International: 718.366.9293
Fax: 718.366.7026
Email: sales@victornet.com
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 02:10:30 PM by Henry Magno »

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #350 on: February 15, 2019, 07:27:42 AM »
Any advice:

I am looking to see what is available for my 1952 220 Sedan for an engine rebuild.  The motor is:
 M180/180.920 with motor number: 08766/52
The local machine shop is looking for the following:
Pistons & rings            1st oversize      80.50 mm

Main bearings              1st undersize    59.71 mm

Rod bearings               1st undersize    47.71 mm

I would replace the camshaft and oil pump as a routine engine rebuild.  If available, new timing sprockets and timing chain.  Obviously a complete gasket set as well. 

I have not disassembled the cylinder head yet.  The book shows valve guides with various oversize options.  I will up date this list and mail it again after I inspect the head.   
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #351 on: February 15, 2019, 12:02:27 PM »
Got this back from the classic center:
Hi Yan

Here is what we can still order from Germany.

Rod bearings 1st repair 47.75mm $262.00

Camshaft- $370.00

Timing Chain- $264.00

Left engine cover gasket- $22.50

 

Below are parts that are no longer supplied

Pistons

Main bearings

Oil pump

Sprockets

Gasket set

Head gasket

Right engine cover gasket

 

1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Ted

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Offline Scott Montoney

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  • 1952 - 220 Cab B
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  • Interior color: Red
  • Location: Mason,Ohio USA
  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #353 on: February 15, 2019, 01:02:50 PM »
This is the part that is so frustrating!!  You never know what is available from MB Classic.  One month they may have what you need, but then it is suddenly not available.  And I rarely get any idea if it will ever be available again.  I bought my head gasket from them fall of 2017.  I guess they are out, but does that mean they will never have them again?  Who knows.
 I was able to order all the sprockets for my engine.  Maybe I was lucky.  Be sure to check Niemouller.
Also, if you do order a cam shaft, make sure you get what you need.  Same goes for the head gasket!!  In my case, my head is a higher compression that what is shown in parts manual and it takes a different head gasket and cam shaft.

So don't strictly trust the part number you see in the parts book, especially if the head is Not the original cast iron, and is the newer lightweight metal (aluminum).

"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #354 on: February 16, 2019, 08:58:39 AM »
Scott and Ted,

thank you.  It looks like quite a bit is available but I am sure some stuff will be harder to find.

Scott, I have the aluminum head but it appears to be original and an option in 52.  Is that correct?

Yan
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Scott Montoney

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  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #355 on: February 16, 2019, 10:02:24 AM »
From what I recall, original heads were cast iron with a compression ratio of 6.5:1.
At some point in time, they were replaced with aluminium at a compression of 6.8:1.
Latter, there was a "high compression" head that came out for the CabA and 220a, with a ratio of 7.6:1.  This head also had a different cam shaft.
(I believe there is even a 8.7:1 for the 220S)
So, make sure you check what compression head you have so that you get the correct head gaskett.
Here is a photo of the stamp om my head and the stamp on the end of the cam shaft.
The service manual has several different referances to these differences.

"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #356 on: February 16, 2019, 05:06:19 PM »
Why would be head gasket be different if they have to mate up with the same block?
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Scott Montoney

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  • 1952 - 220 Cab B
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  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #357 on: February 16, 2019, 05:16:48 PM »
The combustion Chamber in the head is of different sizes/shapes.  The Smaller chamber is what makes the higher ratio.
The gasket mates to the head, not the Block.
I have a photo of both sizes sitting on top of each other.  It shows the different shape.
The shop manual mentions this in several places to make sure the gasket is correct.
If you look at the gasket side of the head, your gasket should match the outline of the head chambers.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline Scott Montoney

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  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #358 on: February 16, 2019, 05:25:24 PM »
Looking at my old head gaskets, here are the part numbers stamped on them:
7.6:1 = 180 016 50 20
6.8:1 = 180 016 51 20

I don't know if they have changed since then.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #359 on: February 16, 2019, 05:27:46 PM »
Scott, thanks for the detail.  I am off on Monday and will hit the machine shop and take a look at which one I have.

Is this the part number for the head and can you tell by the photo which head I have?

« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 05:31:07 PM by yan2947 »
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1