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Author Topic: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration  (Read 66923 times)

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Offline Henry Magno

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  • Year_Model: 1952 220 Cab B, 1937 320 Sedan, 1937 320 Combination Coupe, 1938 320 Cab A LWB
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #380 on: March 06, 2019, 07:49:09 PM »
Sorry I have been away from this forum for a while. I determined what your head is from the cast in numbers between 3 & 4 spark plugs. You posted a picture of it. Yes you have to use the 8.7 gasket. You don't have to use the newer cam, but you might get better performance with it since the valve timing is optimized for the higher compression ratio. The number stamped into the rear end of the cam for the 8.7 is 33. The earliest 220 cams have no number, then 14 followed by 14/1. I think there are more cams than compression ratios as they were fiddling with the valve timing as they went along. These designations are listed either in the 220 manual or the later 180-220SE supplement for the pontons, since the early 220a ponton had a 7.6 head.
I can't look anything up because I'm in Florida for the Amelia concours.

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #381 on: March 07, 2019, 07:57:13 PM »
Henry, I hope you are enjoying Amelia.  Post some photos!  I think what you are saying is that my cam is fine.  There is no "33" stamped on it.  Could it be behind the gear?  The one side (as shown previously) has nothing stamped on the end.  Do you know which gasket (part number) I need?  So do I have a 220 cam?  Or is it a 220a setup?  Mine was replaced then?  Thank you for your invaluable time and information!
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Henry Magno

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #382 on: March 22, 2019, 08:00:59 PM »
In the Niemoeller catalog, MB original number 180 016 18 20, may not be the current MB number. Their number is C 01 490. "Not in stock they say. You must use this gasket, you don't have to upgrade the cam. The cam identifier numbers are on the rear end face of the ca, facing the firewall.

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #383 on: March 23, 2019, 07:19:02 AM »
Thank you Henry!
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #384 on: June 22, 2019, 10:05:10 AM »
Received my rings and pistons etc from Niemoller along with the correct gasket set.  The pistons had tabs on the side that were not on the originals. 
The Machine shop will install and see if they have any issues.  Should that matter?  Do anyone of you have photos of your restored engine.  Just want to see how everyone
painted the engine parts. 

Also, once the engine side covers where removed there was a very fibrous buildup inside.  Very dry like fiberglass but brown like rust.  It came
right off.  I plan on sandblasting the side covers and powder coating.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

Just read Scott's engine rebuild again which answered a lot of questions!  Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 10:56:40 AM by yan2947 »
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Scott Montoney

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  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #385 on: June 22, 2019, 02:49:26 PM »
Pistons - The newer style will have the extended sleeve/tab and should be good.
Side covers - I wonder if the fibers are from someone adding a "leak repair" product to the radiator at some point in time?
                  - When my side covers were media blasted, they revealed excessive corrosion on the inside and I didn't trust them to not have pin-hole leaks. 
                     I replaced mine.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #386 on: June 22, 2019, 05:42:11 PM »
Thanks for the info Scott.  I will media blast mine tomorrow.  I'm still not sure what it was but it just came off very easy.  There is surface rust
on my side covers so they should clean nicely.

Its interesting that from Niemoller when I ordered the "Engine Gasket Kit" C 00 026 it didn't contain the engine side cover gaskets or the oil pan gasket.  Also I didn't order the Main Seal and need that...
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Scott Montoney

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #387 on: June 22, 2019, 07:12:59 PM »
I don't believe that there is a gasket for the oil pan.  It is just a sealant.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #388 on: June 23, 2019, 08:28:35 AM »
I didn't see a gasket for the oil pan but assumed there was one.  Thanks.
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #389 on: June 23, 2019, 08:45:49 PM »
Both my side covers are pitted through after media blast.  Time to order new.
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #390 on: July 01, 2019, 09:25:59 PM »
Just got one of the two side engine covers.  There is no drain plug on the new one.  Does that need to be welded on?

I was going to powder coat the part black.  Thoughts.


« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 09:27:58 PM by yan2947 »
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Scott Montoney

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  • 1952 - 220 Cab B
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  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #391 on: July 01, 2019, 10:13:29 PM »
Is that the cover for the right side (passenger side) of the block?
On my car, neither the old or new one had a plug on that side. Only on the left side panel.
I dont have any idea about the best way to paint those covers.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #392 on: July 02, 2019, 05:47:58 AM »
Scott, yes for the passenger side.  Mine had the plug.  How else could you drain the water/coolant without taking of the side cover itself?

The niemoeller catalog shows a plug also.

https://www.niemoeller.de/en/w187/w187/B010/1/ 
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Scott Montoney

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #393 on: July 02, 2019, 01:03:11 PM »
On my car, there is a drain valve on the driver side near the oil dip-stick.
I can send photo later, but perhaps it is a result of some of the 220S improvements that have been done to my engine?
Henry will probably know when he gets a chance to check in.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #394 on: July 02, 2019, 01:36:03 PM »
Scott,
I have that one also.  Different type valve but in that side also.
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #395 on: July 05, 2019, 11:08:34 AM »
It appears that having the drain valve on one side and the drain plug on the other allow for the coolant
level to drain all of the coolant.  Without it the fluid level would hold about 3 inches higher in the block.
If you don't need to drain it then it wouldn't matter.

1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #396 on: July 05, 2019, 12:48:25 PM »
Question about the oil pan and the "rear part of the oil pan".  I've received the rope seal for the rear of the crankshaft where
it sits in the holder for the seal on the "rear part of the oil pan".  Do I need to replace the "holder" for the seal which seems to be metal?  The holder for the
rope seal on the oil pan and block appear to be the same part number.  I've received one rope piece of rope seal that seems to be
long enough for top and bottom (oil pan and block).

Also, where the oil pan separates to the "rear part of the oil pan", do I need to replace that seal?  It looks like maybe its rubber and
I would have to knock out the rear part.  Is there a need to replace it if its not broken... C01 289 from Neimoller (180 014 01 80).

thanks all!

1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline Scott Montoney

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  • 1952 - 220 Cab B
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  • VIN #: 187.013.04370/52
  • Year_Model: '52 220 Cab B
Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #397 on: July 05, 2019, 02:16:59 PM »
I believe you can reuse the metal seal if it is not damaged.  They are quite expensive if I recall.  I had to replace one of mine.

I thought the two parts of the oil pan were normally separate.  Maybe yours is just stuck together from age.  I would plan on replacing the rubber seal because it is probably too hard and brittle at this age.  I wouldn't trust it to not leak.
"Gertrude" a.k.a. "Troidl"
1952 - 220 Cabriolet B

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #398 on: July 24, 2019, 06:39:54 AM »
The crank is back.  Slowly getting there...

1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1

Offline yan2947

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Re: 1952 220 Sedan W187 build restoration
« Reply #399 on: July 27, 2019, 07:38:08 AM »
Best advise for the exhaust/muffler?  Who/where to buy?

thanks!
1952 220 Sedan W187
1989 911 LS1