ebay germany, sunroof Webasto

[HaJa]

on ebay-germany is offered a complete sunroof (basicly from a 220S, but it is fitting to all 170 V and S)

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330266962037&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:DE:1123

actually the seller wants 1600 euros, but he will accept "offers".

regards

hans /cologne

[Jim Axman]

i can't read the description, but does the offering include all the fixings (cross bars, etc...header)?  and I guess the next question, is once he sells it, what will he replace the hole with?

[roadster36]

he scraps the car
and if you buy it, he cut the complete roof of the car

[HaJa]

... the car is still going to the breakers yard and the owner will sell the complete roof, cutted at frontend and the rear windshield. So the item includes all parts to mount the sunroof to another car.
Please see => there where 2 different sunroofs in the 170.
1. you could order it by mercedes, these cars have a welded frame in the roof, figured as an "u"-profile. In the u-profile was mounted the guiding rail for the roof.
2. you could order it in the aftermarket, these cars have a wooden frame round the cut-out, bolt on with screws. The wooden frame was to stabilize the cut-out of the roof. For such a sunroof you must have different guiding rails, but in version 1 and 2 the same softtop was used.

But I think, 1600 Euros are too much, I would only pay around 600 to 800 max !

Hans

[HaJa]

hello jan -
our postings have crossed ....

greetings
hans

[Charles Adamson]

It is for a Ponton model 220.

[HaJa]

yes, but the dimensions are identical to the sunroof for W136/W186 ....

[Jim Axman]

I have a sunroof in my DS, and I bought a 220 webasto canvas replacement in the US for $200.  I have most of the fixings, and the original setup as you describe, although I am still trying to figure out the portion that puts the canvas up in the air as in an accordian manner.   Last winter I installed the canvas and most fixings, but stopped to tackle something else.  There was a non original black canvas on it before.....so I have improved the condition tremendously and someday I figure out the swinging bars.  They either go one way or the other and are hinged, but originally riveted to the main structures.   

[HaJa]

... to fix a sunroof with a new canvastop could become a horrorjob, if the canvas to replace has not the correct dimensions or the last owner has done  bad job on it, i.e. you have a wrong length of the wires, deformed bars  etc.
at first (sorry about the maybe simple question) please look for your fin => it must start with 136.049 if the sunroof is factory-build. If your cars id starts with 136.040 you have a retrofitted sunroof !

In the workshop-manual (the great one for all models) you find nothing to mount or justify the sunroof, webasto (I asked them a few years ago) has no servicemanuals or adjustment-instructions from the 50th in stock.
In the coachwork spare-parts list  ("Aufbau-Ersatzteilliste 136.IV, Ausgabe B") you will find on page 104-110 are shown only the parts with all numbers, but no hints how to find the correct justifying. By-the-way => I have only a reproduction of the spare-parts list and page 110 with the partsdescription from no. 12 till 14 is missing. Has anybody this page and can make a copy ?

I made pics and a protocol with some freehand sketches (they give me today the idea, that since I must be drunken ;-]]) during demounting my sunroof a few years ago. If you will have more input, please give me a sign .... I remember, that the cable rope must be fixed very exact, otherwise the roof will pinch (sometimes left side, sometimes right side).

regards

hans

[Jim Axman]

great photos Hans.  Best I have seen with more detail.   Thanks for posting these.  Question:  Are the main rods attached to the canvas in any fashion, or just the runner?

 

  (axmanj-090608)> posted in the tech gallery> http://www.170220.com/gallerytech/thumbnails.php?album=33

By the way, there is a vendor in Washington that has a cut off roof and fixings for sale for $950 on ebay for almost 1 year.  I offered $500 last year but he never did take my offering.   I was just surfing and only came up with the cut off ponton roof (which has no cloth OR fixings).  the fixings are the hardest things to find.....if you don't have those, what good is the hole by itself?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ROOF-1959-MERCEDES-BENZ-220S-Ponton-Cut-For-Webasto-Top_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ140712QQihZ021QQitemZ310013544138QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

[HaJa]

... uuuh, I must surf deep in my brain ... long, long time has gone since I made it (and acutally my sunroof is in the highest area of my garage, stored till mounting).

So I try (no obligo!) =>  the 4 main-rods are running in the alu-profile "under the roof", contoured and following during opening/closing always along the roof of the car.

The 4 small rods are fixed with a helping-arm on the main-rod and they are runing free (outside the profile). This "secondary rod" will only press the canvas to the roof, if canvas is in closed position. You see, that the construction of the helping-arm will adjust these secondary rod (the free running one) parallel to the main-rod in closed-position.

The general function is => First rod in the profile, second out, third in, fourth out and so on. With this arrangement the canvas can go upstairs during opening and it will lay "press" on the roof, if you close it.

All rods must be stored in a "sack-hole" of the canvas. Because of the sharpnes of the rods all rod-ends must be armed with a leathercover on their end, otherwise your canvas will be destroyed inbetween minutes.

On the end of the canvas (over the rear window) the complete canvasconstruction must be fixed on the roof with Sikaflex or onother gummed adhesive material. The screws alone may not fix it enough!

Sorry, canŽt explain it more clear ... hope this will help you. If necessary, I can make detailled pics from my roof or/and make a scan from my freehand-sketches.

good luck during mounting your roof in the correct way, give please reply from the result

hans

[Jim Axman]

thanks Hans, exactly the answer I was searching for; that gives me the key direction.  Amazing memory on this?

[HaJa]

my oldie is my 2nd love ... and so I remember all good and bad minutes with this fancy car ;-]]

[Jim Axman]

Hans > All rods must be stored in a "sack-hole" of the canvas

followup question, the main rods have a slit with adjustable bracket, part of which goes in the outside track and also attaches the headliner.  The slit in the bracket is shorter than my "sack hole" edge...so I assume, when you say all rods be stored in the sack-hole, you also mean that the edge goes in that slot and might need to be trimmed?  Does that question make sense?

[HaJa]

... sorry, I reach the end of my understanding your language ... too many specific terms give me an overflow ;-]]  and the risk of misunderstanding is too great.

I think, I will grab my sunroof from my stock and make some pics, which will demonstrate the regular funktion ... a pic says more than I can explain in english. Please wait a few days, I must find the time to do this (planned tomorrow in the evening ....) => ok ?

[Jim Axman]

Well I didn't intend for my questions to cause you undue work. 
Having said that, I am always amazed how it seems John Ellis, California, will go pull a part off his car and take pictures of it and post, when someone asks a technical.

You guys willl go that extra mile.   Too bad we don't have a badge or stick pin for that....

[HaJa]

... donŽt worry ... it makes me fun, because to drive a old mercedes, it is necessary to have a good group, where you can discuss and/or solve a problem.
See it aŽla long ... if there is a problem on my car, IŽm sure to get an idea after posting it.

AND A SUNROOF IS ONLY A PLEASURE, IF CAN OPEN IT DAILY!!!

[HaJa]

sorry, I had too much to do and could not spend time in making pics of the roof. IŽll do it in the next days, ok ?

[HaJa]

long time has gone, but now I had time to make the pics with details =>

please note, its from my "old roof", but the function was great ... it runs smooth, no rain comes in and the optic line was ok.

maybe the admin can put the pics in another thread like "how to fix a new canvas" ...

[HaJa]

the next 10 pics ...